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The most influential music artist of all time?
Could JS Bach be the most influential artist of all time, the father of music? Here is another fascinating video posted recently by Rick Beato that intrigues me. Bach wrote the keyboard playbook, “Well Tempered Clavier Books 1 and 2” that lays the foundation of harmony and counterpoint that Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Shubert, Chopin, Liszt…all who came after him learned from, and his influence on classical artists right down to the latest rock/pop song writers seems to be profound. You hear so much admiration for Bach by many of the modern song writers, even heavy metal.
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78 Replies
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Paul Simon talks about his creative process and Bach. Advance to the 5:00 mark.
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Jimmy Page on Stairway to Heaven influence:
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Hi Jung,
it’s very nice to see when time-honored masters like Bach can inspire and excite younger generations with their work. Not only musicians but also other artists like this break dancers for example.
PS: Maybe not exactly what you intended, but as I understand it 😀
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Hi Jurgen
These guys are awesome! I really liked at around the 5 minutes in with the harpsichord piece playing, the break dance moves really take off and the audience goes really applaud. They really choreographed the dancing with Bach really great. It’s amazing nearly 300 years later people are still touched and influenced by Bach’s music.
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I think any time you try to say “the most” you’re asking for trouble, but he’s certainly on a very short list. What’s funny and sad at the same time is the number of artists (and I use that term very liberally) today that are influenced by Bach (and others) and don’t even know it.
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Hi Roger
Yes, good point you make, there is also all the influence without knowing it, or indirectly. Influenced by for example Led Zeppelin’s Stair Way To Heaven that has Bach influence.
I think with the Beatles, they probably did not realize some of the influences early in their career, but a much older Paul McCartney decades later comes out and says, “Bach is our favourite composer, that’s what we were doing, we just put a beat behind it”.
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It’s interesting the “California” sound of the 60s has influence from Bach as well, in fact if you go to Brian Wilson’s website, he talks a lot about Bach, and how much Brian adores Bach.
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You might be right Jung. But as great as Bach was, in his time, if you weren’t rich, you never heard his music. And if you’re not into classical music since then, you might not know him too well either. There are people like Rick Beato who influence other people, after being influenced by Bach though.
But if you’re including that transitive influence, I would think about simple music. Here’s one possibility. Blues -> jazz -> rock, and more.
https://youtu.be/O8hqGu-leFc?list=RDEMvlmVVaB4pmtU2P9fqxhH2A
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Hi Chris
I guess that could be said about all the great literature and paintings too, not just classical music. Only the well off back then could likely afford to go to school and learn to read and write and had the time to indulge in Shakespeare or go to one of his plays, or only the wealthy could afford to go to the museums/art galleries to see one of Da Vinci’s masterpieces. The vast majority of the general public back in those darker days probably could only afford to survive and feed themselves. But that does not mean the art that was more accessible to the wealthy did not influence all the literature, art, and music that would follow for centuries. In fact with Bach, after his death, his music was all but forgotten by the general public, and it wasn’t until a hundred years later when Felix Mendelssohn and some other composers revived Bach, and the world came to love and appreciate the magnitude of his genius in music.
Robert Johnson’s guitar work sounds great, thanks for sharing it!
Perhaps Rock and Roll was influenced by the Blues at first, and then in the 60’s the creativity really took off, and classical as well as other styles influenced rock and roll, and rock/pop became more universally accepted. To Rick Beato’s point, Bach’s influence is everywhere and widely appreciated by many great rock musicians.
I read a while back that Chuck Berry is considered by many as the Father of Rock and Roll, and “Roll Over Beethoven” was the first true rock song. Chuck’s sister took classical piano lessons, and Chuck was no stranger to Beethoven’s music and he felt the music influences he was into would make Beethoven roll over in his grave, and coined the song “Roll Over Beethoven” that became the first big Rock and Roll hit. So in a funny way, Beethoven influenced the first rock song. 😁
I posted the Chuck Berry “Roll Over Beethoven” story in one of the early forum posts.
Edited to add:
https://test.monalisa-twins.com/forums/topic/roll-over-beethoven/
test.monalisa-twins.com
Restricted Membership Area – MonaLisa Twins
Restricted Membership Area – MonaLisa Twins
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Chris,
Of course there are many musicians who’ve had a huge influence, but their numbers are very few when you compare them to the whole world population. Here’s one guy who was the biggest influence in Jazz & Popular Music in the early 20th Century. He really set the trend! I’m sure you’ve heard his recordings. Also, you’re correct about early Blues Artists too! — Bud
Louis Armstrong (1901 — 1971) Here’s the 2nd earliest film I believe of Louis.
Louis Armstrong in Copenhagen (1933)-HD (youtube.com)
And, one of my favorites!
The Louis Armstrong All Stars – Someday (Goodyear film 1962) [official HQ video] (youtube.com)
Good night! — Bud
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Yeah, you’re right about Satchmo. Good choice.
And I actually thought of Chuck Berry too.
It is really hard to influence really widely across the whole world – I think you’re right.
But someone who doesn’t live in North America might have a better perspective on that than me. Almost all the music I have ever heard is from US, Canada, UK, and classical music from the rest of Europe. A few other things, but not much.
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Chris & Jung,
Thanks for your replies! I’ll answer better tomorrow. I’m eating dinner after teaching, then I’m leaving for my Band rehearsal in 20 min.
Take care, & long live Rock, Classical, Jazz & Pop Music! — Bud
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Hi Bud
Louis Armstrong’s vocals are iconic and his trumpet playing is just as amazing. Both Louis Armstrong and Chuck Berry’s influence on music is undeniable, and they set an amazing bar for rock artists to follow in the footsteps. Even Angus Young of AC/DC attributes the bands guitar work influence to Chuck Berry, and I think Angus is unaware, but their guitar work has Bach all over it from my perspective.
While Jazz may be attributed to the influence of the Blues and others, Beethoven was doing the Boogie Woogie a hundred years earlier, and is another example of how modern music influence comes from all sources, including classical in a big way:
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Jung, that’s great. Still sounds like Beethoven, maybe with some Bach mixed in, but there’s a rhythmic component there, some syncopations, that makes it sound more rock like, or boogie woogie or ragtime/jazzy.
When I brainstormed a list of influencers, Beethoven was the only other classical guy. But there are so many influential people.
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Chris,
Sinatra is another favorite singer of mine, who I’ve sung along with on the many recordings that I’ve collected of his. Thanks for adding “Night and Day!” I like the Swingin’ Jazz bands that he recorded with, such as Billy May, Nelson Riddle, Tommy Dorsey, Harry James, Axel Stordahl & others. — Bud
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Jung,
I don’t know Beethoven’s compositions as well as you. I’m guessing that whoever recorded that piano piece made it swing. (?) I think that Beethoven would have played the rhythms straighter as in typical Classical style, but I could be wrong! I’m sure that Scott Joplin & early Ragtime players were influenced by Classical Music.
On the other hand, when you play his pieces with a swing feel to them, you CAN hear his influence on Jazz! I know that the French Impressionist composers had a big influence on Jazz & it’s more modern chord structure.
And I learned long ago that Jazz was born in the Southern USA, in New Orleans & other places down South. Its influences were rhythmic influences from Africa, work songs & call & response, plus European Classical Music. And in Jazz, instruments invented in Europe came to the fore in Jazz. Such wind instruments as the trumpet, saxophone, clarinet, trombone (sackbut, ha-ha!)
& string instruments like the string bass & guitar were, & still prominent in Jazz.Later, such instruments as the Violin, Flute & other instruments started to gain popularity in Jazz.
The Banjo was invented by African slaves, & an African American musician invented the Drum Set! The Sousaphone was also invented in the US at the request of John Phillip Sousa, which is really a wraparound Tuba.
Jazz may have been the first Hybrid Music Style, with several World influences — African, European, Caribbean, American, etc.
It’s a very interesting subject, & I appreciate your research on Beethoven’s influence!
THANKS! — Bud
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Hi Bud
I’m certainly no jazz expert here, and as you said the origins of jazz come from the US south and Africa and as does the blues, and how much if any influence Beethoven had on jazz is hard to say, but to Beethoven’s credit it is amazing his brilliant innovative vision in music enabled him to echo what modern jazz would sound like in 100 years. By the time of his 32nd Piano Sonata, Beethoven was completely deaf for some time, and music was just in his imagination swirling around in his head, and he was creating some music that was beyond the understanding of other composers and audiences at the time. His late String Quartets are also renowned works that were lost to the audience of the time as it was so abstract. But in his head he foresaw what the future of music would be. This is what Beethoven’s Piano Sonata No 32 sounds like, and some jazz musicians feel it echoes jazz. I will leave it up to you and Chris to form your opinion about it.
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Hi Jung,
I do hear some Pre–Ragtime/Boogie Woogie in that Beethoven Piano piece, so I don’t doubt Beethoven’s influence on Jazz. (No need to argue about that!) I had never heard this piece before! Another thing to think about is that since there were no recording capabilities in Beethoven’s time, it’s up to the modern piano player’s knowledge of the Music to interpret the Classical pieces played before recordings were available.
Often that amounts to documentation of how contemporaries of Beethoven described his playing styles. But hands down to Beethoven, Bach, Mozart & all the great Classical composers! I know I said earlier that European Classical Music was one of the big influences of Jazz, ALONG with African rhythms, the Call & Response form, Field Hollers, and in the late 1800’s, the Blues & Ragtime had their influence on Jazz. That’s why it is such a hybrid form of Music.
When the Civil War ended in 1865, there were Black Regiments that had Military bands, & all those instruments were available to use. The Blues singers would bend their notes, use glissandos & “Blue Notes,” like flat 3rds & 7ths. The horn players copied the Blue’s singers’ phrasing, also using water glasses, & plungers for mutes! Blacks were usually not allowed to take lessons in Classical Music in the 1800’s, so they just invented their own styles!
Then there was the influence from Sousa Marches, & early 19th century solo techniques for new instruments like TRUMPETS with VALVES that could finally play chromatic notes!
Then Gospel Music came out of the Church, and Soul, Funk, Rock & other Music forms came a bit later in the 20th Century. (This is an ENDLESS RABBIT HOLE to go down here!!)
Here’s a Scott Joplin (1868 — 1917) Piano Roll of his actual playing from 1916.Maple Leaf Rag Comp & Pl By Scott Joplin (youtube.com)
Another interesting thing I learned from the book — “Louis Armstrong, Master of Modernism” (c.2014) that my daughter gave me, is that Louis may have taken trumpet lessons from a Classical trumpet player in Chicago. Also, Louis 2nd wife, Lillian Hardin was an excellent Jazz AND Classical Pianist who played with Louis on his “Hot Five,” and “Hot Seven” recordings. She met him when they were both playing in Joe “King Oliver’s” Jazz Band in Chicago.
Louis probably wrote out note for note some of his most famous solos from the 1920’s with a Classical influence, but with a tremendous Jazz Feel & Swing! (I didn’t know that ’til I read the book!)
There are NO VIDEOS of his 1920’s recordings, so here’s a famous audio recording of his piece called “Cornet Chop Suey.”Cornet Chop Suey (youtube.com)
Lil Hardin is pictured on the far right, & you’ll hear her ragtime Piano Solo in between Louis’ Solos!
I could go on, but I’ll stop here! — Bud
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Like I said, you might be right. Of course, there’s a difference between influence and just plugging in whole passages. But her mother and sister are playing the violins here, and she has a background in classical music.
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Perhaps, but as I’m not a fan of classical music, lol, I just simply don’t enjoy that genre , ( sorry to Jung & others who do, for to me it’s boring, I cannot emotionally, musically connect, it’s just not a thing, I can tolerate, but I’m happy that those who enjoy it can get something from it, just not me , please , take no offense, disrespect, it’s simply just not one of the music genres, I enjoy/tolerate/relate of with ) but I can understand when/where the influence can come into being, there seems to be a pattern from at some point in time, all music, over the eons of centuries, have had influence from somewheres, and perhaps over the time since evolution of the origins of classical music, hence from then onwards, somehow the theory or whatever vibe got influenced thereafter as a guideline for was genres were to follow, and evolve into being , formed, etc …
Personally, as for my ideas of the greatest influences in music, well, that’s an open cannon, with me, I’m going to say a variety of origins, that fused/hybrid into influences on an individualistic basis according to whomever the musician can relate to best in a music sense , but I do believe , that country/blues/gospel origins, are very solid genres of influences , that I’ve noted and personally could explain, why I’m drawn to in most cases music that poetically /emotionally/physically moves me … This is my overall thought on this, you may agree or disagree respectfully ….😉🙃✌🤘
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Thanks Jacki for your input. We all have different tastes in music, food, hobbies etc, but here in this lovely place we are all drawn by one common bond, and that is our love for the incredible beautiful music of MLT, and the amazing wonderful people they are. They attract like minded wonderful people that make up this community. All the musical influences through the ages have come together here, and the greatest most inspired music is being made by Mona, Lisa, Rudi, and Michaela. We are all so lucky to have found a place where the most beautiful music ever is being created. For me rock and pop faded from my favour as did most other music, and Mona and Lisa, and the incredible second to none beauty of their music brought me back to music. Classical can get a little abstract sometimes, and Mona and Lisa’s beautiful harmonies and melodies bring me back to music filled with so much emotion, life, and passion. It grounds me. it is the best in music period.
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Thankyou Jung for your sentiments…. Actually Team MLT are the one and only exception I’ll enjoy ” Classical ” Music genre of, because of the fact they poetically evoke intertwiningly– lyrics and emotional music interpretation by vocals/Instrumentation and perhaps that’s the key as to why I nake them the one and only exception to “Classical ” Music, as their way, resonates /connects with me whereas normal “Classical” does not do anything for/to me… I hope I’ve not upset/offended with my reply, that was not my intent, and my apologies , if I gave inadvertently… 🕊☮️
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Hey Jacki, you could never offend upset, no worries, really appreciate your sharing your insight here. Speaking of MLT classical music interpretation, this one blew my socks off. It’s from modern classical composer Howard Blakes masterpiece.
….”music is so pure and beautiful that I see it as a reflection of the inner beauty of the universe,” he said. Albert Einstein
This evokes the reflection of the inner beauty of the universe indeed, only in the most absolutely joyful way MLT can.
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Jung,
This is definitely one of my favorite MLTs videos; one that I’ve shown in classes before!
This whole thing is simply perfection! — Bud
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Giles Martin said of the latest new Beatles “Now and Then”, there is a medieval feel to the song. In the last 30 years or so of new music, next to all of MLTs new songs, nothing new has moved me as much as this song. Musical influence passed down through the ages inspires the genius of John Lennon to write this amazing song, and many more decades later, executed to sublime perfection by the genius musicianship of Mona and Lisa.
Now and Then is on the level of Jump Ship and Why?
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Jung,
You nailed it as always! Who else but Lisa & Mona — (Mona & Lisa,) can do the variety of Music they do at such a high level?! And then write & perform their own songs on as high a level as the groups THEY admire, like the Beatles!? NOBODY!!
— Bud
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Hey Bud! Well said, Mona and Lisa’s music is definitely at the supreme level of the musical influences MLT admire like the Beatles. I just had to add this one again to the 2 previous videos to illustrate the beauty of their originals. GOD, I LOVE ALL THEIR MUSIC, ITS ALL SO BEAUTIFUL AND MOVING!!!!
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Jung,
This is another video that I’ve watched over and over! It’s wonderful in every way! It really has a strong Beatles influence too! As with everything they do, Mona & Lisa’s positive personalities come through very clearly. How can we not LOVE it! — Bud
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A sideways note to this discussion, occasioned by mention of Chuck Berry, involves another song of his, with a question. The song is ‘Johnny B Goode’ and there is a fine cover of it by, yes, ‘Shut Up and Kiss Me’. They guerrilla-filmed their cover in a public park and look like they are having a whole lot of fun! But that’s not it. The lyrics contain the following line: (people would stop and say)”Oh my what that little country boy could play”. Someone somewhere said Berry changed that line before it was released. The original was “what that little <colored boy> could play”. Changed because radio stations at the time <would not play those original lyrics>. So here’s the question: I wonder why that was? It’s certainly not the N-word or anything else similar. In fact the lyrics are rather inoffensive and also few in amount (this is why the ‘Shut Up’ singers like it: fewer words in a foreign language, it’s just “go go Johnny’, over and over! Haha) The only conclusion I can come up with is this = any mention of anyone <non-white> was simply not allowed in radio airplay. Regardless of who actually wrote the words. Not on the air, nossir. Does anyone know anything about this or have an alternate theory? (for fun, here ’tis)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OvRvjXCYBQ (um, besides the clothing choices, there’s some mighty fine guitar work here also)
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This reply was modified 1 month, 2 weeks ago by Pete White.
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That’s a good question, Pete. It was before my time, but perhaps it was thought that the song would have a wider appeal if the character’s race wasn’t specified.
I remember in grade school reading a story that mentioned a “colored child”. I had never heard that term, so I pictured a kid whose skin was a patchwork of various bright colors.
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Hi Pete & David,
First, I really enjoyed the “Shut Up & Kiss Me” version of this song; it really rocks, & that’s a great guitar solo tooI PLEASE DO NOT TAKE ANY PERSONAL OFFENSE AT WHAT I’M SAYING HERE!
I want to address the question of why the term “Colored People” is offense to many. It’s not a comfortable issue to address, but it needs to be cleared up to avoid misunderstandings, especially in this day & age!
I was born in the ’50’s & grew up during Martin Luther King’s time. I know that we White people were just not given all the facts about slavery & racism in this country. And most of us are NOT to blame for that, because we didn’t cause the problems to start with! But I’ve learned so many just appalling facts about the whole racial issue, & we cannot ignore it, & bury our heads in the sand.
Kids AND adults today need to know our true history — so all the bad things aren’t repeated! There are those in power today who deny racism, deny the Holocaust & anything that places blame on a certain group, or groups of people.
I don’t even think of myself as being White first, & I really hate being labelled “Caucasian” on forms that I’ve sometimes had to fill out! My ancestors weren’t from the Caucus Mountain area!
I just think of myself as being a “Citizen of our Earth.” No matter what color we all are, we’re still Human Beings. Rather than saying that I’m “not racist,” I’ve learned to be “anti-racist,” which means that if an issue of racism comes up, we need to address it. I don’t feel uncomfortable at all doing this.And please believe me, I’m NOT putting either of you down, because you had a good question! But I am more than a little bit peeved about the stance of certain politicians, AND ex-politicians in the US! I’m sick & tired of the lies, hatred, racism, & on & on! But rather than just give you more of my feelings, here are 2 short videos that really addresses this issue very well!
Terms for people change over the years, and this old “colored people” term gets right to the issue of what’s wrong with some peoples’ attitudes in this country, the USA. We really need to see things for the way they are, & just STOP IT with the Systemic Racism, which has existed here, AND other places in the World for centuries! We cannot deny the truth in that!
Please check out this video, & thanks in advance for your question, and for watching this!
Also, I’m pretty sure that Mona, Lisa & Family would agree with me on this issue.— Bud
Why the term ‘colored’ is so offensive (youtube.com)
And here’s another good one!
Why Calling Black People ‘Colored People’ Is Problematic (youtube.com)
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This reply was modified 1 month, 2 weeks ago by Bud Jackson.
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This reply was modified 1 month, 2 weeks ago by
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Thanks for the background and the videos, Bud. But the issue here is that Chuck Berry said he WANTED to use the word “colored” and the radio stations wouldn’t allow it. One would think that the roles would have been reversed. That’s what we’re trying to understand.
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David,
Thanks for clarifying that. Racism is a very touchy subject. I’m guessing that Chuck Berry had a nonchalant attitude about it. And he was very popular with Black AND White audiences. And the 1950’s was a very different time than now. But he could have just walked down the street and been attacked by the KKK. Every Black person has had some kind of weird experience, usually from prejudiced, ignorant white people. (I call them “hillbillies!)
The famous Jazz trumpeter Miles Davis got beat up & billy–clubbed on the head from one of NYCs finest! The reason? He was standing outside the club where he was playing & having a cigarette break! The officer told him to move on. Miles pointed to the billboard at the “Birdland Jazz Club” with his name on it. The officer didn’t believe him and hit him over the head!
Miles had his picture in Downbeat Jazz Magazine showing his bloody head bandage in 1959. There have been so many incidences like that, but now most people have a phone camera & post this racial BS that’s going on!
But I think that we should all be aware of our history and try to choose appropriate words so as not to offend anyone. I can understand how “People of Color” feel about the past — it hasn’t changed much in some places! I do have, & have had friends of every color, so I try to think in terms of “everyone should be treated fairly,” rather than trying make others conform to certain beliefs that I or others might have.
That’s all for now! I have to take off, so have a good rest of your evening!
Sincerely, Bud J.
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Bud and David–this is not in response to the discussion about ‘colored’ but rather concerning something said about the ‘Johnny B Goode’ video = specifically, Andrei’s guitar work. His is almost always masterful and quite amazing to me, a non-player. Robert (always on the right in their vids) is quite good, but not as flamboyant. I wanted to point out something quite astounding to me: Andrei is the Old Man of the group and its guiding light. Six months ago he announced that he had just had his <21st> birthday!! Good grief! He hasn’t been playing all that long, I believe about ten years. An inborn talent to be sure. And ‘old man’ because all the ladies are younger. The two in ‘Johnny’ are high school seniors with college starting in Fall, 2024. Their resident sax player, Sofy–not seen here–was 15 when she joined and by now might possibly be 17. How many 15 year-old female saxophone players do we even know of? There’s something in the water over there, I am convinced. Take care.
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Hi Pete,
Somehow, I missed which country this group is from! They are definitely very good! It must come naturally to them, but not without a lot of work, and mostly a desire to play and sing! I have had female sax players frequently in middle & high school Band & Jazz Band. it used to be not OK for girls/women to play anything other than Piano, Violin or Flute. And even not those in major Orchestras. Thankfully that has changed for the better in the last 40 + years.
— Bud
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Yes, they are all of them born and raised in what is called the cultural center of Romania, the city of Iasi (‘Yah-shee’) which is up in the Northeast. Bucharest is relegated to the administrative capital. Iasi has <five> universities and so there is a younger, student-oriented vibe to the area. These kids all have very basic English, which you would hardly know from hearing them sing and they have an astounding command of Spanish, in ‘Despacito’, for ex.
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I had meant to add the following to my Romanian comment but forgot where it was on the computer. Here ’tis. I transcribed this mainly because it represented the most English I had ever encountered amongst these youngsters. Enjoy!
(a running transcript from a short vid.
This is good theater!) Came across a cute very short handheld vid
by Giulia of ‘Shut Up and Kiss Me’. It might have been a cell
phone, except that she fiddled with something several times to set it
on a table. The stars are Giulia and a girlfriend.G: we
are here in my friend’s house. Just home from school where we
in class together. Her name is ‘Adnada’.(A waves) and
says hi thereG: yes and it is Adnada and not ‘Atlanta’!
‘Atlanta’ would be a strange name whereas Adnada is perfectly
normal.G: the nice thing about A is that her English is much
better than mine. She is going to make me a snack.A:
yes, we have been in class–we are seniors in high school–for six
hours and G is weak with hunger.G: what, you are not
hungry?A: I had a pastry
(Camera is picked up and
shows the stove. In an 8″ frying pan sits what appears to be a
round orange sponge. My thought was some kind of pre-formed big
potato pancake)G: what is it?
(They both talk at once
and partly in Romanian. All that can be heard is …”cheese,
I think”…..)G: oh so it is a creepy? A
creep?(turns out she meant crepe as in crepe suzette, etc.
It seems that in Romanian the English E is short, not long, and a
word with an E at the end has it pronounced where we would be silent
(‘envelope’). So ‘crepe’ = ‘cree-pee’)(a long interval
in which the girls attempt to light the burner with a standard BBQ
lighter which won’t cooperate. They finally decide–G is
reduced to mumbles by then but A says hey we just need a spark for
the gas, not a flame and so they succeed in coaxing a spark from the
igniter)A: what else do you want? I have this
cucumber.G: oh yes
A: and this tomato?
G:
yes.(A proceeds to industriously whack both into small bits.
An occasional small piece crosses the camera view)-
A: oh, I gotta…move the thing.
I’m not very good at this (G moves the camera and waves it around
while A flips over the ‘sponge’ with a big spatula) A: Sometimes
when I do this the food doesn’t get back in the pan right away.G:
or at all. This is why we are going to school, to learn these
thingsA: yes!
G: I am glad you cook this.
Someday i will be like forty with six kids and still no cooking.
I cannot cook.A: you sing and your husband will cook for
you. And drive you. (Looks at camera: she is afraid of
roundabouts)(A cat appears in the opened kitchen window)
G:
oh look! Here, kittykitty, come here. Here, kitty.(cat
jumps back down out of sight)G: oooh (disappointed)
A: it doesn’t understand English
(glances out the window, says a few things in Romanian, cat
reappears, purrs, rubs, gets a handout and leaves)A: we have
eleven catsG: Eleven! Last time you said thirteen.
Who died?A: I counted wrong. A couple look a lot alike
and they keep moving around, you know?G: why do you have
eleven?A: because mom says the house won’t hold fifteen (her
only hesitation with pretty good English, she stumbled a bit with
‘fifteen’)A: this looks done. (Turns off heat and with
the spatula levers the ‘sponge’ onto a plate containing about three
pounds of cucumber and tomato bits. G holds the plate firmly,
perhaps having seen food transfers go awry before. The ‘sponge looks
exactly the same as at the beginning. No color change,
nothing. Obviously not a potato pancake which would have darkened
and crisped up)G: (very quickly) okay, I am going to eat
now. Goodbye. Say goodbye A (A waves and camera goes dark).
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Yes, Pete, it does my heart good to see talented young musicians taking such joy in performing their own arrangements of great music written long before they were born. But of course, that’s probably what first lured all of us into this club!
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This reply was modified 1 month, 2 weeks ago by
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Hi Bud, Chris, et all
Einstein is one of the greatest scientists in the world and he understood how through music, math, and physics one can understand the beauty of the universe.
Here is a piece Einstein played of Beethoven that earned him praise from his music teacher. Beethoven can make the violin weep! So beautiful.
While Beethoven wasn’t his favourite, Einstein was quite good at playing his works. “Too personal, almost naked,” is how Einstein described Beethoven’s works. But that didn’t stop him from playing them — and he actually seemed to be good at it. When Einstein was in high school in Aarau, Switzerland, his teacher singled him out for praise: “One student, by the name of Einstein, even sparkled by rendering an adagio from a Beethoven sonata with deep understanding.”
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Very good Jung!
I’ll look more closely at this later…I’ll be gone a good part of the day!
CHEERS! — Bud
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Jung,
That was truly a gorgeous piece of music, played with a lot of feeling & soul! It floats in the air, like it came from somewhere else in the Universe! It’s great if you like that sort of thing…..
Which I definitely do! A masterful piece of work! Too bad we can’t hear Einstein play it!
Hmmm, I’m going to check to see if there is anything out there of Einstein playing Violin.I can understand how a scientist could get inspiration from music!
— Bud
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Jung,
Here we go! You’ve probably seen this before, but I haven’t! Marvelous! He has an almost Gypsy type flair in his performance! And it sounds like a triple stop near the end; (3 notes played at the same time.) — Bud
Albert Einstein NEVER BEFORE HEARD: Plays Violin – Mozart Sonata in B-flat KV378 (youtube.com)
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Hey Bud
Albert Einstein certainly had an affinity with the genius of Mozart, Bach and Beethoven. He saw in their music the the beauty of the universe, and it seems he was on the same wavelength, expressing the beauty through his genius in math, but what is so amazing is the link between these great minds.
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Jung,
Here’s Einstein again making a speech. This foremost genius of our World was obviously very softspoken, straightforward & likeable!
Real Speech by Albert Einstein | Albert Einstein’s Voice | Einstein Speaking (youtube.com)
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Here is treasure trove article I found. Albert Einstein: 10 things you might not know about his love for music
cbc.ca
Albert Einstein: 10 things you might not know about his love for music | CBC Music Read
Albert Einstein wasn't only a gifted scientist, but an avid music enthusiast. On March 14, his birthday, we delve into his second love.
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Jung,
Very interesting indeed! I will explore this some more on another day.
Thanks very much for posting all this info on Einstein, Beethoven, Bach & Mozart!
(I hope that someday we can go back in time & experience all these interesting people of the past!
Some believe that there is no time; that everything exists all at once in different dimensions. I have no idea if that’s true, but it’s intriguing to contemplate!) — (Over music!)— Bud
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Bud, sometimes it feels that way to me about time and everything is really happening at once. The way the song “Now and Then” came together almost feels like that, John, George, Paul and Ringo working on the same song, but from different times, and technology allows them to stitch the song together. When I journal and go back to one of my entries from 10 years ago, it feels like I am visiting my former self, and wish there was a way to crack that barrier and instill some wisdom to my more ignorant self about what I am struggling or writing about (only if I knew then what I know now). Sometimes, what I wrote about back then give me insight now.
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Hey Jung,
Do you know how to contact other members privately? Can you contact me? I have a question for you. Thanks! — Bud
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Hey all, since the discussion has veered around to matters Einsteinian, I felt compelled to post this fine little gem. These ‘sisters’ are not in fact related, but they have been together for some 30 years, making music in and around Ann Arbor, Mich. Enjoy!
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That was a surprise, thanks Pete. I had never heard the Chenille Sisters before, although I certainly have known of them for many years. Since I live in Ann Arbor.
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Pete,
These sisters have a very nice vocal quality, & their acapella vocals are excellent! I’m not sure about what they were saying about Einstein, but their music is very good! — Bud
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Bud, et al, they have a real catchy song about a <can of tuna>. Not joking. Their songwriting is like that: it deals with the important things in life, like did Mrs Einstein really… and about tuna. Never mind love and all that stuff.
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That is an interesting song Pete. I’m not sure from what perspective or motivation those lyrics come from about Einstein. I know the Nazi scientists of the time discredited Einstein’s work, and the motivation behind that was pretty clear. But thanks for posting it, as it adds to the discussion.
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I don’t know how I missed seeing this, but hey, that’s me in a nutshell…day late, dollar short kind of thing.
I couldn’t begin to pick or even shortlist the most influential musicians or writer/composers from any time in history. Other than you would have to likely start back in the classical era since that was pretty much the formative line of most musical forms or styles. Trouble is, when you (OK “I/me”) start delving into the evolution of music, there is just too many variables in the modern (Industrial Age?) era that carry weight and huge influences.
Pianists, guitarists, vocalists, horn and wind players, percussionists…it’s almost overwhelming to try and single out a select few let alone one. Again, I can’t help but remain in the last (roughly) hundred years to be able to relate to any on a somewhat personal influence level. My scope of reasoning or understanding just isn’t that broad I’m afraid. But it still goes back to the land of Mozart, Beethoven, Bach, Chopin and so many others I suppose.
My younger years stint in the realm of classical piano threw me (albeit rather unwillingly in the explosive 60’s) headlong into the works of Beethoven, Bach, and Mozart, and while there is little doubt that they were giants of evolutionary influence, that didn’t sit well with my young mind. It was too “dry” because of the inherent rigid structure and no room for improvisation was remotely tolerated. Horrible punishment for someone growing up with the more hip sounds of rock & roll and later, psychedelic and drug induced heavy metal. What the blue blazes did a 10 or 12 year old want with the theory and stodgy makeup of a piano based symphony no matter how famous it was? I wanted nothing more than to pound out the “noisy trash” (my father’s family’s description) of Gerry Lee Lewis and other more “progressive” minds. Even my most forward thinking Auntie (all of the family save my Dad were music teachers) hated Elton John for goodness sake. To H.E double hockey sticks with that classical long hair crap for me though, I wanna ROCK!
Of course now, in retrospect, so many of our now octogenarian (or posthumous) rock idols profess to having huge influences from the classical masters. I never really gave it much thought until my 40’s when I first picked up a guitar and a light (although somewhat dim and forgotten) began to glow. And believe me, I’m still no virtuoso on the fretboard either. And I can’t finger pick to save my hind end. But now I approach music theory in a whole different manner. And it’s really the same stuff I hated with a passion back in my pre and early/mid teens. Only now I embrace it with a sort of awe and wonderment being as I’m a whole lot closer to 70 than 60, surely way closer than I ever thought I would be. Too soon old too late smart for sure.
But personally speaking, I take my inspiration from those that have gone before me in the modern music world. They have broken the ground I want to cover and given me the benefit of their vastly wider view and expertise. That includes our dear Twins of course. What I wouldn’t give to be their age now, knowing what I missed (but had in opportunity) and turned my back on…-
Hi Daryl
Thanks for that really thought provoking insight. Made me think of my own music preference journey over the years. For me, by about the mid-90s I found myself listening to my favourite music of the 60s, 70s, and 80s. I enjoyed some of the more new age genre of music of Enigma, Enya, George Winston etc… Then one day I guess I tapped into the classical music of Mozart and Beethoven, and I hit the tip of a massive iceberg, and before I knew it I had accumulated some 200 CDs of classical music. Perhaps if there was a big music movement or someone really big and inspired like the Beatles again, I may have continued on the rock/pop music genre, but there was really nothing more that interested me by the mid to late 90s. In the 90s I liked stuff from U2, and some past artists like Madonna, but it was all past artists, there seemed to be a vacuum in new rock/pop music being created unless you were into rap and hip hop or the Bieber, or Brittney Spears that was really emerging. Unfortunately none of the new rock/pop artists post mid 90s interested me, so I ended up going even further back to the music of 200 years ago! HAHAHA. Even that classical started fading on music, and MLT one day appeared and music, all music came alive.
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I think it’s just about good music influencing artists, good music from history, and now. Just like medieval music influenced classical, classical influenced future music. It seems as we experience more music, we appreciate a wider variety of music, perhaps that’s what happened to the rockers. I am sure Paul McCartney wasn’t digging classical during his early career days in Hamburg, but they say all the variety of music exposure from all genres helped to form and round their music creativity later.
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Hi Daryl
Speaking of improvisation you might find this clip from a Beethoven documentary I found interesting. In his time, improvisation on the piano was a competition amongst the great pianists in Europe, and legend has it that Beethoven was the undisputed master of improvisation in his time. It would be like Hendricks vs Clapton vs Page…today.
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That reminds me of two more modern competitions that made some ripples. Although not necessarily relevant to piano, they did showcase the need for skill with improvisation in music.
Charlie Daniels “Devil Went Down To Georgia” is likely more widely recognized by most, coming across as a battle between good an evil in a recorded version that hit the popular airwaves. Charlie may not have been a symphonic virtuoso, but he could certainly make a statement.
And of course a good old guitar battle between the same forces but in a different ‘mode’ so to speak. Some very good guitar minds set this to film in “Crossroads” where Steve Vai played Satan’s champion against Ralph Macchio’s character, a burgeoning young blues player. Ry Cooder did the score, and Steve did the rock/metal playing with William Kanengiser doing the classical stringed movements. Steve is sort of a wilder, even less conventional version of Jeff Beck. He knows no bounds as to what he will attempt to do with a guitar. His album “Flexible” is one of the most insanely different recordings I have ever heard. -
Hi Daryl,
Devil Went Down to Georgia has some great guitar playing I remember. I will have to search on youtube the video for it. Cross Roads sounds interesting, a movie eh? A little off topic, but enjoyed watching this short video of guitar legend Jimmy Page talk about his iconic double neck guitar. Imagine working in the guitar factory at Gibson, and one day Jimmy Page shows up and shakes your hand. That double neck guitar looks quite heavy, must be quite a work out performing with that. It would be very special to be able to own one of the limited edition double neck Gibson’s guitars personally autographed and played by Jimmy Page with the guitar pick he used included!
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Hey Jung….Double necks are indeed very heavy, and being commonly composed of two Gibson SG’s (a 6 string and a 12) makes them a definite serious weight on the shoulders and back. Gibson electrics are renowned for being heavy for their size (and the ES models are huge anyway). which is one of the reasons I prefer PRS guitars, they are very light in comparison to most others. Steve Vai actually has a triple guitar (aptly named “The Hydra”) that he does play. But a few of the most famous double-neck players are Jimmy Page (Stairway to Heaven), Don Felder (Hotel California), and Richie Sambora (Wanted Dead or Alive). The late Jerry Doucette played one often but he isn’t what I would call a mainstream billboard type of player/artist. I play Hotel California and Dead or Alive on my acoustic 12 string, but have never even attempted Stairway, which is somewhat sacrilegious for any guitar player (if you can call me that)…perhaps the threat of being thrown out of guitar stores for attempting to play it there holds me back.🤣
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Wow, a triple head guitar! Love the name Hydra. I couldn’t imagine what that must be like to haul around on stage, but sounds pretty cool. HAHA, yeah I heard about songs played so often in guitar shops you could get booted out, or there are signs posted stating what songs are not allowed to be played in store. I think if you can just pick up a guitar and play something, you are doing pretty good in life.
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In all honesty, I’ve never had the guts to try playing even a few licks of Stairway at a shop haha. I know I could manage a few strains of it but that “forbidden fruit” thing is kind of a monkey on my back.
When I take my S12 back in To Long & McQuade for another setup, I might take a run at Wanted Dead Or Alive, or maybe Give a Little Bit, Hotel California maybe. Just to test the feel and action on the new strings…I won’t touch any maintenance on that guitar, other than cleaning the frets and oiling the fretboard. I’m scared I’ll mess something up. I know it’s still “just a guitar”, but something about the 12 strings and the dual slot bridge piece/saddle freaks me out some.
My older guitars I take to my local buddy, he’s a professional guitar tech over and above my former parts manager at the dealership. Heckuva player too.
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Well put, Daryl – What I wouldn’t give to be their age now, knowing what I missed (but had in opportunity) and turned my back on…
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Yep, too soon old, too late smart…😆
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